[Charlug] WTF??

Mon Feb 9 09:58:30 EST 2009

Hi Jim, et alia

My move to Norway has been wonderful, I enjoy it quite a bit here.  It is
especially beautiful this time of year with all the snow.

I was hired by Trolltech, now Nokia: Qt Software( the makers of Qt) at the
end of last year and despite the economic down-turn we are still hiring:

  http://www.qtsoftware.com/about/careers/job-openings

I do suspect that Open Source software industry will see quite a bit of
growth in this economic down turn because of the savings as well as quality
it can provide companies who so desperately need to cut their costs.

Regards,
Andy Nichols

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Tim Jowers <timjowers at gmail.com> wrote:

>  I think the drawdown in American pay and pricing is a positive force
> for Linux. How can a company justify spending $800K for Oracle BEA
> WebLogic, $70K for an AIX or SunOS server, or even $10K-$50K for a
> Microsoft suite of proprietary lock-in ware? It sickened me when I
> worked with the 12th largest company in the USA to see them laying off
> staff in America only to blow money on stuff like this. I emailed the
> VP and she had a study done. I talked to the Oracle guru about his
> study: he referenced a 4 year old study comparing MySQL and Oracle and
> never even installed MySQL! I talked to the engineer who did the
> WebLogic versus JBoss study and he was the sysadm and basically just
> wanted to keep the status quo regardless of the net mal-investment of
> millions across the corporation. Saved him a week or two of learning!
> In the case of WebLogic it was especially sickening since we already
> were using JBoss in tandem in the network at numerous sites and we
> were not using any of the proprietary WebLogic lock-in technologies so
> could have migrated to JBoss in a week. Heck, RHAT even has a
> migration kit which we could have used! (Another group wrote their own
> migration guide.)
>
>  As a professional programmer, I'm constantly frustrated with
> Winblows. I do all of my development on Linux (Fedora or Ubuntu, don't
> care which) unless I am forced to slow down and use the jalopy. As the
> economy continues to tighten, this waste of $300 for 'blows and
> orifice or whatever and the bigger waste of time will start to stand
> out I think.
>
> Andy,
>
> You are correct. Doctors and Lawyers have used licensing and laws to
> prevent competition on the world scene. As professionals with
> comparable training and workload, we are frustrated with YoY industry
> average pay declines. Without protectionist measures such as those
> employed by doctors, lawyers, and other engineers, we will continue
> the asymptotic landing of the Iron Law of Wages.
>
> Of course we can specialize in certain technologies and certain
> company needs. Longer term, however, for our children, we have to
> realize the Aluminum Law of Pricing is a direct offspring of the Iron
> Law of Wages. My guess is the USA is at the precipice of pricing. No
> matter how hard Congress tries to increase credit, pay is falling and
> this is a natural outcome of globalization like you said. Most people
> think Congress will start printing physical currency but the in real
> value terms pay will continue to obey the Iron Law of Wages (that's
> why it's a Law). Pricing will adjust accordingly (The Aluminum Law of
> Pricing). This is what GM fails to accept. They are competing with Kia
> and Hyundai -- well, should be but instead choose to not sell cars and
> to let their business collapse while Hyundai's sales are actually
> increasing. People who are making less money have to buy lower priced
> autos.
>
> As to the H1B and L1 visas, I worked at one place where a person had
> been on an L1 visa for 7 years. He was afraid to even ask HCL for an
> H1 as he thought they'd make him leave the USA! I tried to get him to
> switch to another bodyshop but HCL had him on a tight leash. The H1B
> and L1 visa programs have zero enforcement on the federal
> requirements. We know in everything the government does there is
> corruption; so, why would the visa programs be any different? I
> strongly suspect companies who have employed the H1/L1 training
> program to later offshore their staff will see an enormous legal and
> otherwise backlash because I know of several stellar engineers with 16
> to 25 years of experience who have gotten the axe in the last two
> months. An incredible misuse of ability. A waste for the whole world.
> IME, companies who think they will succeed by laying off their
> brightest and most experience employees are really already in a death
> spiral. Get out while you still can!
>
> Most everyone I know in tech has taken a pay cut or job cut in the
> last few months. For most people, it is just higher insurance
> premiums, no more bonuses, etc. Continued pay declines will be the
> norm. In a severe recession it is not about getting rich but staying
> afloat. As Linux and Open Source gurus, we offer to save our clients'
> precious capital in this time of recession.
>
> My $.02,
> TimJowers
> P.S> How do you like Norway?
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Andy Nichols <nezticle at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > This should not be taken as a call to arms, but rather a wake up call to
> > those failing to adapt to our new situation.  We live in a world without
> > borders now thanks to our use technology.  Those who still live with
> those
> > artificial boundaries in mind are the ones who will fall behind. You are
> no
> > longer a citizen of America, but a citizen of the world.  These compani=
es
> > have the right idea, these H1-B visa workers have the right idea, but
> those
> > of you who are rejecting this surely must know that this battle is
> futile.
> >
> > I have since moved from Charlotte to Oslo, Norway for this very reason.
>  You
> > go where the work is and you can't afford not to adapt in a world of
> change.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:28 AM, Jason Edgecombe <jason at rampaginggeek.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Peter Senft wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I really thought about this mail. And I am still not sure if it is go=
od
> >>> to answer because I am still too emotionally affected by it.
> >>>
> >>> I feel *again* reminded of a time when an Austrian guy ruled Germany
> and
> >>> some dark mindset was planted in the brains of people. Everybody want=
ed
> >>> "Deutschland den Deutschen!" (translates: Germany for the Germans!). =
We
> >>> all know what happened then... What I hear from that senator sounds
> very
> >>> pretty much the same. And *nobody* in politics criticizes him! THIS IS
> >>> SCARY!
> >>>
> >>> In addition this senator should think about his request first and do
> his
> >>> homework. Visa holders by law shall be treated equally to a US citize=
n.
> >>> So there is no visa holders first possible until somebody changes the
> >>> laws! But hey, every politician lies more or less all the time and it
> >>> seems that it is so common for them to break laws that they suggest it
> >>> for everybody else.
> >>>
> >>> People get real. You try to work on some symptoms and not on the caus=
e.
> >>> You live in a capitalistic country where greed is considered good.
> These
> >>> companies are greedy and they give a shit about people. All they care
> >>> about is money. But hey, let them lay off all the foreign workers. I
> >>> want to see the US workers that is willing to do these job for the
> >>> salary that the H-1B's got! These people are needed to hold the econo=
my
> >>> up and running! But with all this pressure these companies think now
> >>> more about outsourcing. *That* will help laying off all the visa
> holders
> >>> *and* the US citizens and still the company wins.
> >>
> >> There is another downside to sending the H1-B's home. We're sending
> >> well-trained professionals out of the US and they will be competing
> against
> >> instead of helping us.
> >>
> >> I think the whole H1-B program is unfair to the visa holders. I say
> scrap
> >> the program and roll all of the visas into a permanent visa and raise
> the
> >> cap of permanent visas to accomodate the H1-B's. If companies want to
> >> recruit people from abroad, let them stay permanently and switch
> companies
> >> if desired. Let the immigrants bring over their families so that they
> will
> >> stay and increase the brain pool and work pool.
> >>
> >> Jason
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CharLUG mailing list
> >> CharLUG at charlug.org
> >> http://charlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/charlug
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CharLUG mailing list
> > CharLUG at charlug.org
> > http://charlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/charlug
> >
> >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://charlug.org/pipermail/charlug/attachments/20090209/3a1c5989/att=
achment-0001.htm